The films A Complete Unknown, on Bob Dylan, and In Restless Dreams, on Paul Simon, make vivid to me the huge emotional appeal of becoming a musician like them.
I remember when Bob Dylan was awarded the Nobel Prize in literature. I was pleased that they'd finally recognized lyricists as the true poets of today, but puzzled that they passed by real poets like Simon & Garfunkel and Leonard Cohen, to award it to someone whose lyrics I had always found shallow, simplistic, and abstract rather than poetically concrete. I reviewed the lyrics of at least 2 dozen Bob Dylan songs, looking for this alleged poetry or wisdom, and found none.
It wasn't until reading this just now that I realized they gave Dylan the Nobel because of all that, not despite it.
Hi Phil, I agree with you; historically I never was that impressed with the classically famous Bob Dylan songs (I am 60), but about 5 years ago someone told me to listen to (and read the lyrics of) Only a Pawn in Their Game. There are various covers of it that are even better than Dylan's version, such as:
Think how young Dylan was in 1963 to have composed the poetically concrete and politically insightful lyrics, not to mention the power of the musical arrangement.
"[S]uch processes of cultural change are largely random unless disciplined by selection effects." This is a nice, succinct statement of your concern about cultural drift.
But it is hard to quantify the appropriate level of concern. Are we in "deep, deep trouble," or is this just another way in which things are not as good as they might ideally be?
Maybe the Nobel Prize-givers were considering not just the lyrics apart from the music, but lyrics as a components of songs. Which would mean they considered songwriting a form of literature, rather than looking at a lyric sheet as a poem. IDK, but that's how I would assess Dylan's work. I don't believe that song lyrics can be understood apart from the musical context or even apart from the performance of the song.
What are the evolutionary reasons that we trust the "heroic process, evolved long ago"? Are you implying that artfully expressed complaints were in the past trustably valid? Anybody can complain about anything; some of us are more artful about it than others. Maybe I'm missing something.
I think I'm missing your point. You say we evolved to feel that complaints expressed artfully are valid, yet the feeling no longer reflects validity because of "the recent rise of health, wealth, and peace".
Please write a book to convince us that something that feels so good could be so wrong! Also help us mere mortals understand by giving more examples, elaborating, etc.
My sense is that these culture-related ideas are different. There may be overlap with EITB but he is trying to express something new and important but I find it difficult to parse sometimes (being a mere mortal!)
I remember when Bob Dylan was awarded the Nobel Prize in literature. I was pleased that they'd finally recognized lyricists as the true poets of today, but puzzled that they passed by real poets like Simon & Garfunkel and Leonard Cohen, to award it to someone whose lyrics I had always found shallow, simplistic, and abstract rather than poetically concrete. I reviewed the lyrics of at least 2 dozen Bob Dylan songs, looking for this alleged poetry or wisdom, and found none.
It wasn't until reading this just now that I realized they gave Dylan the Nobel because of all that, not despite it.
Hi Phil, I agree with you; historically I never was that impressed with the classically famous Bob Dylan songs (I am 60), but about 5 years ago someone told me to listen to (and read the lyrics of) Only a Pawn in Their Game. There are various covers of it that are even better than Dylan's version, such as:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2LYt6gKbY8
Think how young Dylan was in 1963 to have composed the poetically concrete and politically insightful lyrics, not to mention the power of the musical arrangement.
"[S]uch processes of cultural change are largely random unless disciplined by selection effects." This is a nice, succinct statement of your concern about cultural drift.
But it is hard to quantify the appropriate level of concern. Are we in "deep, deep trouble," or is this just another way in which things are not as good as they might ideally be?
Maybe the Nobel Prize-givers were considering not just the lyrics apart from the music, but lyrics as a components of songs. Which would mean they considered songwriting a form of literature, rather than looking at a lyric sheet as a poem. IDK, but that's how I would assess Dylan's work. I don't believe that song lyrics can be understood apart from the musical context or even apart from the performance of the song.
Robin (or others) -- is this theorist on the same wavelength as Robin's fears about the future? Or are Robin's issues different....?
The Hidden Truth About Our Collapsing Birth Rates - Mads Larsen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fL_xEBYTDs
What are the evolutionary reasons that we trust the "heroic process, evolved long ago"? Are you implying that artfully expressed complaints were in the past trustably valid? Anybody can complain about anything; some of us are more artful about it than others. Maybe I'm missing something.
We can see we have the capacity, and we know evolution is what makes such things. QED
I think I'm missing your point. You say we evolved to feel that complaints expressed artfully are valid, yet the feeling no longer reflects validity because of "the recent rise of health, wealth, and peace".
Ok...why?
>Or course
*Of course.
Going offline to listen to some S&G thanks to this post, thank you.
Please write a book to convince us that something that feels so good could be so wrong! Also help us mere mortals understand by giving more examples, elaborating, etc.
Does "The Elephant in the Brain" not count as that book?
My sense is that these culture-related ideas are different. There may be overlap with EITB but he is trying to express something new and important but I find it difficult to parse sometimes (being a mere mortal!)
Love EITB though.
I sensed this too and I find it sexy...lol.